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Over seven million euros for a democratic farce

Wed, 02/04/2008 - 23:46 — admin-b

Relentless Swedish “PR Queen Margot” Walstrom continues with the attempts to fill up the ever-more apparent gap between the political goals of the representatives and the represented ones in the EU area reports the EUobserver.

The EU Commission will now throw another 7 million euros in the continuation of the “Debate Europe” website and into “funding a number of civil society projects” which will not only “involve citizens in decision-making”, but will also “make EU more popular.”

You would need zillions for the latter but at least we are thankful for involving us in the decision-making process. We can now decide between the two alternatives - to laugh or to cry. Or perhaps even both?

Comments

Sat, 05/04/2008 - 15:35 — Anonymous

Debate Europe

I’ve been to this Debate Europe website and tried participating in the forums there (I have only been to the English ones). It is a complete waste of time. Mudslinging and name calling from both pro and anti EU sides as well as many slanderous comments against MEP’s and others and a great deal of anti religious and just about anti everything. Some of the worst offenders do not even live in Europe! Is this the attitude the EU requires of us to become good citizens? There is little to no moderation, no report post function for posts of an offensive nature (trust me there are plenty of those) nor ignore user function. Not a nice place.

Sun, 06/04/2008 - 13:02 — admin-b

problem - solution ?

What you’ve explained almost proves the deliberate communication fog they have/want to have. Could you please spend few more 10-minutes to affirm your experience?

You can use [ and the reverse symbol for putting the text you want to the link which you put in these ( brackets. Or simply post some examples and we’ll put them in proper design.

Some three or better five examples of their “preferred style of dialogue” would do.

Then TEAM could make a short notification to the European media… :)

So we have:

  1. Forums without moderation
  2. Abusive language
  3. Unconnected issues
  4. ….
  5. ….

Which all result in an inefficient internet forum…

Sun, 06/04/2008 - 14:25 — Anonymous

examples of the quality of the "Debate Europe" forum

Example 1

Example 2

Example 3

Example 4

Example 5

Maybe someone can just use this for reference and repost it somehow without the swear words etc in it. I don’t like posting these examples…
Sun, 06/04/2008 - 18:08 — admin-b

moderators would be necessary indeed

I’ve looked at the “Debate Europe” forum.

It’s truly a disorganised place.

Perhaps this topic would be the best example since it goes straight to the core:

IRELAND: VOTE NO to Lisbon Treaty - Keep your constitution

If this is how 7 mil euros will be spent…

Funny thing is that IT IS POSSIBLE to make a better and more efficient web-tool rather than plain “forum” that would truly enable people to ask questions and receive answers from those payed to act as our representatives. Another questions of course is - do they want it in the first place?

Sun, 06/04/2008 - 19:29 — Anonymous (not verified)

From the link you posted re

From the link you posted re Ireland: Vote No on Lisbon Treaty it’s interesting that the moderator showed up early in that thread. I quote ‘We want to hear from you just as we want to see what reaction, if any, your posts get.’ Is this then some social experiment? I’m unsure what the point is really.

I for one went there with the hope of a better understanding and some questions answered by someone who actually knows something. Instead there is some bullying going on and this from both sides. I did even have some sympathy for Walstrom herself who showed up in one thread to ask a question and the topic immediately went pear shaped. I don’t think she came back at least to post and I’m not sure I would have either.

You are right though, IT IS POSSIBLE to make a better and more efficient web-tool and even a more efficient forum. There are rules there that aren’t enforced and should be. Even if that means offending some of the pro-EU people who post there.

All should be made to stick to the rules or they lose the chance to participate but alas it seems a free for all instead. I would like to point out that while it is an English language forum there are a very large amount of people posting from all over Europe as well as from various non EU countries (US, Canada, Australia, Pakistan, Turkey etc).

Any clue how well behaved the other language sections are? I’d be interested to know.

Wed, 09/04/2008 - 10:39 — Anonymous (not verified)

It seems they have started

It seems they have started to straighten up the forums at Debate Europe. That can only be a good thing for those who post there. Would be nice to see some real involvement from the EU officials in the near future.

Wed, 09/04/2008 - 13:42 — admin-b

how to engage them?

It’s nice to see things can move. How would you invite officials to the debate? By asking them questions? There will be thousands of such questions immediately and the process will be blocked anyhow. Important questions by relevant organisations? Credible questions? Should they respond to statements? Which level of officials? :) please brainstorm with me

Wed, 09/04/2008 - 18:16 — Anonymous (not verified)

With further thought...

The more I think about this, the more I come to believe we really have no chance to change a thing here. There is much talk about ‘transparency’ and ‘engaging the public’ but I think there are limits. For me, I would like explinations for some of the statements they themselves have made.

“Public opinion will be led to adopt, without knowing it, the proposals that we dare not present to them directly… All the earlier proposals will be in the new text, but will be hidden and disguised in some way.” – Valery Giscard d’Estaing, Author of the European Constitution

How can they expect support from the Citizens when they are with their own words trying to trick people? Is that democracy? Transparency? Does it show care for our wishes? I think no. And I fear for our future to be honest, that so much has purposefully been hidden from us, and I for one want to know why. Also they say the majority of Europeans agree with them. Where is this majority? I am in a bit of despair over this whole issue and find it quite surreal. So what for the future? I don’t know. Eventually people will shut up and accept it? I am not a rebel by the way, so far from it you would probably laugh to know how far from a rebel I am! Nor am I exactly ANTI eu. I am anti dishonesty and anti trickery for entire nations of people as I can’t imagine what type of people would even attempt to do that and to get so far with it as well. For me, a movemnt, and a union must come from the people. It must be built from common wishes from the common man not enforced in some disguised trade policy for so many years from a few at the top. That is not the stuff that nations are built from. Certainly not the stuff of a nation built to last anyway. If WE don’t believe it, and love it, and feel our voice matters, there is a huge huge problem. For brainstorming, I’m not sure I have any ideas what-so-ever.

Thu, 10/04/2008 - 12:04 — admin-b

List of questions for EU Commissioners

OK, I concur. You wanted the form of questions, we’ll make one for them together. You have - how many, eh? - 27 Commissioners. We prepare a single question for each one of them. Wait! We can simply ask “The members of the Barroso Commission” - MBCs (2004-2009 ?? They are so sure they will last ‘till 2009?). So they’re not Commissioners anymore but more correctly MBCs (eMBeCels). Now the ball is in your hands. Make a list of suggested questions for each one of them. If you don’t make the full list it’s ok, we’ll fill the remain to the 27 important questions together. I for one would ask our MBC on Gallileo development.

Sun, 20/04/2008 - 10:23 — Anonymous (not verified)

Margot Wallstrom=It has been

Margot Wallstrom=It has been said by quite a few of the various governments that the peoples of Europe simply cannot understand the language of the treaties and other government papers as so many seem to reference other papers. What can be done to rectify this situation so we can all get a clearer understanding of where we are headed and what our rights are. Once that is done and Europeans have a clearer view of what is being proposed would it not then be fair to allow them to have a say on their participation?

Siim Kallas= When will the accounts be signed off as satisfactory and is there investigations on going to discover why the past years accounts have not been signed off? Are there any laws in place to prosecute those who may have mishandled public finances even at the highest levels?

Franco Frattini= There are many concerns that there is still in existence legislation that allows the death penalty for rioting, civil upheaval and during times of war. What is the European Unions definition of rioting nad civil upheaval? Also, will there ever be a European wide draft for military purposes or laws set in place requiring every citizen or every male citizen to join the military for a certain length of time?

Stavros Dimas=Will there ever be legislation regarding companies who offer products with excessive packaging? Instead the little man is taxed and charged for his rubish which we really do not ask for. To receive packaging 10 times the size of the product you are actually wishing to purchace and then be responsible for disposing of the unwanted packing is unfair. Also much has been said about wind farms in my country being ugly thus people don’t want them. Should we care about the view out our window more then the environment? This type of energy is much cleaner long term then Nuclear power plants, will more be done to encourage their use?

Joaquin Almunia=The Treaty of Lisbon states that all member states will take up the Euro. Does this include those member states who’s citizens have no wish to do so?

Jan Figel’= Is the right to home school safe under EU law for those member states who currently have that right? Also are our Christian faith schools safe?

Olli Rehn= Just how big does the EU intend to become? Or the EEC?

Laszlo Kovacs=Some EU countries have lower corporate tax rates then others. Will this tax rate be harmonised throughout Europe and if so what will happen to the countries who have been attractive to international businesses because of their lower taxation rates?

I can’t think of what else to ask. I have a lot of questions still but not sure who to ask what or how to word the questions.

Thu, 10/04/2008 - 17:34 — Anonymous (not verified)

Some thought

Not ignoring you, just spending some time thinking of what questions would be best. This is far harder then I imagined when I made my previous statement as I think I was a bit presumptious to assume we might all want the same questions answered. Not least of all because I have for some of the people involved more then one thing I would seriously wish to know the answer to.

Wed, 09/04/2008 - 15:01 — Anonymous (not verified)

I’m not sure to be honest

I’m not sure to be honest :( On one hand there is the mild suggestion they will engage and that it is a place for people to let their concerns be known but then it’s pointed out that the forum is not a Q and A and when questions are answered it seems to be via a copy and paste method from public documents that already exist within the EU or from other citizens with their own opinions or interpretations of already existing documents. It’s all a little frustrating! I admit I look daily there for answers but so far have not found them. Though I also don’t know where else to look. I’ve tried searching online for answers but that opens up every conspiracy theory known to mankind in probably every language ever known and I refuse for instance to believe in little green men for a start! I would hazard a guess that despite many of us living in different countries we probably have the same questions and could probably sum up our fears/concerns in just a few dozen common questions. But who would answer this list of questions? That is a very good question indeed.